Hey friends, I need your advice on a situation that’s got me scratching my head! 🤔
I recently bought a valuable instrument from a pawnshop in California at a steal of a price. But now, the original owner, who claims it was stolen from his car 6 months ago, has contacted me. Here’s the twist – he had insurance that paid out for the item.
So, here’s where I need your input:
– Who has the rights to the item in this case?
– What are my obligations as the current owner?
– Is there a way for me to verify if his insurance did indeed pay out a claim?
After reading through all the responses and considering my options, I’m leaning towards doing what feels right and aiming for good karma. I want to come out of this situation with positivity and maybe even gain some valuable connections in the music world.
What do you guys think? Any suggestions on how to navigate this tricky situation while staying on the right side of the law and ethical standards? Let’s discuss and brainstorm some solutions together! 🤝
Let’s chat and help each other out! 😊🎶
Have you asked for any proof that it was stolen? Like a police report?
I’m not your lawyer. Google bonafide good faith purchaser. It’s yours. Also, if this was an insured loss that was paid, the insurance company owns it, subject to your good faith purchase defense. Referred to as salvage. Like when your car is totaled the insurance company keeps the title after paying you.
I would ask for a copy of the police report and take it to the pawnshop and ask for a refund. If they refund your money, you are clear of the situation and the pawnshop can deal with the police and the owner. I would advise the owner that the pawnshop has the item and the police report, then he can get the situation resolved. If there is a police report and the pawnshop won’t refund your money, I would accept the refund from the owner and suggest he contact the police so they can investigate who pawned the item. If there is no police report, I would question the owner why? Maybe he pawned it and lost it or maybe he didn’t want the police involved, but it’s unlikely the insurance company would pay out without a police report. I have many years of experience dealing with this sort of thing from the pawnshop side.
If the item is his, and he has proof of that, why is he offering to make you whole? Why would he not go to law enforcement or the pawn shop? Perhaps I’m missing something, but it seems scammy to me.
California has a mandatory reporting system for everything that comes in on pawn or purchase called CAPSS.
This means that if the item had been reported stolen, ***as soon as the pawn shop took it in, it would have been flagged as stolen*** **and the police would have retrieved it**, and the information on who brought it into the pawn shop. Even if it gets reported stolen *after* it goes to the pawn shop, it’s still in CAPSS and will get flagged.
This smells fishy to me.
ASk him to provide the police report, or at least which department it was reported stolen to so that you can check for a stolen item report. If it does turn out to be stolen, you return it to THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, not him. If there’s insurance and he’s been paid out on it, it’s not his anymore. Oftentimes, the insurance companies wont even claim it either, and the police will return it to the person that had possession of it when it was turned in to police.
Ask them for the police report # since obviously if it was stolen. they never reported it stolen? why not?
It could be stolen or a previous owner could see an opportunity to get the item back at below market value. If this person can’t produce a police report tell them to stop contacting you
If everything is as you say, then you would be considered a “bonafide purchaser for value” and entitled to either keep the item or be reimbursed by the pawn shop for your costs.
Either the purported owner or the pawn shop are at fault here. If the purported owner didn’t report it stolen in a reasonable amount of time then that’s on him. If the pawn shop knowingly sold stolen property that’s on them.
I don’t see how the insurance policy “proves” anything in this case. I could insure an item, then go down to the pawn shop and pawn it, and then file a fraudulent claim. The only thing the insurance policy MIGHT prove is that he ONCE owned the item.
But for all you know he could have sold it to his friend Joe who sold it to his friend Tom who pawned it. The mere fact that he had an ownership of the item at one point in the past doesn’t mean it’s stolen now.
The bottom line is that this isn’t your problem. Until a police officer knocks on your door, or until you are handed a summons and complaint to appear in court, nothing has happened. The alleged “owner” can email you until his fingers bleed but it doesn’t mean a damn thing. If it was me I’d block the idiot. Definitely don’t give your address, phone number or any other contact info. This is not your mess to fix and your obligations are exactly zero to anybody but yourself.
I unknowingly bought a stolen dirtbike from a pawnshop years ago. Pawnshops are supposed to enter all purchased items into a database that the police can check when an item is reported stolen. This is of course up to the cops to actually check! As far as the instrument, do they have a police report saying it was reported it stolen? If so and the insurance company paid then technically it now belongs to the insurance company.
The number of people advising OP to just fall for a scam or potentially commit a crime, is ridiculous.
Lots of other people know the serial number on this object. At very least, the pawnshop employees and the person who originally pawned/sold it there. Significant proof, including the police report, is required.
Not a lawyer. The best thing for OP to do is probably contact law enforcement and the pawn shop to get a refund. If the original owner was fully compensated by their insurance for the item then the insurance company is the true owner of the item currently. Selling a known stolen item to anyone is a crime. Usually the person holding the stolen merchandise when it is recovered loses out financially.
Also anybody can have an old insurance policy with the serial number on it and still have pawned the item. Without a copy of the actual Police report showing the item stolen I’d tell him to take a hike. Not everyone is honest no matter how honest they might seem.
Is it possible the person didn’t know it was valuable until seeing your post and pawned it for considerably below market?
It’s complicated. If the original owner had found it at the pawn shop he would have been able to buy it back for the price the pawn shop paid for it. Now that you have it, and the original owner was paid out by insurance the item is no longer the property of the original owner. The complicated part is that if the item is of great enough value the insurers could claim the item, depending on what state you’re in. The smartest move for you is to sell the item as soon as possible. If you return the item to the original owner you might have to notify the insurer, or possibly be implicated in insurance fraud.
You should work with the original owner and their insurance company to return the instrument. You may be liable for dealing in stolen goods. But, the original owner does not get to buy it back at the discount and get the full insurance proceeds. Once his insurance paid, they surrogate to all his rights.
If he is offering to buy it off you let him buy it. You are legally in the clear.
If insurance paid it out already its yours. If he can prove its his and you agree it was and was stolen and he will pay whatever you paid the pawn shop, I would give it back. People get attached to instruments and shit gets stolen all the time.
Pawn shops are liable for ensuring that items they buy aren’t stolen. In this case the pawn shop needs to make you whole for the item and the original owner should get it back. The only one who loses in this case is the one who didn’t do due diligence. The pawn shop is supposed to get ID from the person who sold it. They should in turn go after that person for their loss.
I mean you can offer to sell it back to him at the price you paid at the shop so you can get your money back. He got his insurance pay out already so I mean it’s not like he’s losing anything.
You have no obligations, and this is clearly a scam. How did the guy get your number? If this was legit you’d be getting contacted by a detective. A pawn shop shouldn’t be giving out your contact info to anyone without a warrant, and they wouldn’t be giving it to a random guy no matter what kind of insurance documents he had. The legal advice here is to not talk to this guy any more and call the police, because you’re the target of a group of con men. If you think you need a lawyer first that’s fine, but you haven’t done anything illegal, you’re either the legitimate owner of this instrument, or the potential victim of a crime.
Put yourself in the original owner’s shoes. Something important stolen from you. How would you feel? You know what the right thing to do is.
1. Victim should call the police with the information.
2. Police will contact the pawnshop to find out who pawned it.
3. Police will have pawnshop,unwind the sale to you & have you give item to the police.
4. Police will return item to victim & possibly file charges against thief.
5. Victim will be required to return payout to insurance, or face an insurance fraud investigation
This should not be shortcutted without police involvement…assuming the victim is telling the truth & filed a police report.
You don’t have to do anything. It is your property. As others have stated, Pawn shops go through a process to verify that items sold aren’t stolen. If the police contact you (I don’t think they will) hire an attorney. If the pawn shop didn’t do their part that’s not on you. Keep your property and sell/flip as you see fit.
Pawn shops are required to place serial numbers and descriptions into data basis for the police to have access to locate stolen items etc! You did nothing wrong buying the item and if it was stolen the pawnshop in many jurisdictions hold property for a certain amount of time and then place it for sale for reason such as this! Pass along the pawn shop information to the supposed victim and he can go from there with the police etc!
Tell him to have the police contact the pawn shop as they were the initial reciever of stolen goods. If his claim is legitimate, then the transactions will need to be reversed, starting with the sale to you.
I have a question if it was stolen how did he find the pawn shop and how did he get your information? And shouldnt law enforcement have made contact first if anything ??
Former pawnbroker: The original owner has 100 percent right to his item. It doesn’t matter if insurance paid. You also have no right to know if they paid out. There may be sentimental value that insurance doesn’t pay for. It’s also quite possible insurance was under value, which is none of your business either. Right now two people are out, him and the insurance. If he gets the item back it’s his job to notify insurance to pay the money back.
Pretty sure he has a right to the item if it’s a rare item he has not been made whole by just the money and you’ve received stolen goods