#courtesyvspermission #relationshipadvice #communication #marriagecommunication #courtesy #permission
Navigating the fine line between courtesy and permission in a relationship can be a tricky task. It’s not uncommon for couples to have differing opinions on what constitutes a simple act of politeness versus seeking permission for actions. In a recent discussion between a husband and wife, the topic sparked a heated debate that left both parties searching for clarity. Let’s dive into this complex issue and explore how to differentiate between courtesy and permission.
**Understanding the Context:**
In the scenario presented, the husband found himself in a situation where he needed to run a quick errand to a nearby store without notifying his wife. When she discovered his absence upon returning home, a conflict arose regarding the necessity of informing each other about such activities. This situation led to a deeper conversation about whether this act should be considered a courtesy or a request for permission.
**Defining Courtesy and Permission:**
1. **Courtesy:**
– Courtesy is a polite gesture or action that is considerate of others.
– It is about showing respect, being thoughtful, and acting in a way that is socially acceptable.
– The husband might view informing his wife about his whereabouts as a courteous act to keep her informed and prevent unnecessary worry.
2. **Permission:**
– Permission involves seeking approval or consent before taking a specific action.
– It implies a level of authority or control over a decision.
– The wife might perceive the need for a text as a way of seeking permission to leave the house, especially in cases where safety or expectations are involved.
**Differentiating Between the Two:**
The distinction between courtesy and permission often lies in the intention behind the action. Here are some points to consider:
– **Intent:** If the primary motive behind informing your partner is to be considerate and keep them informed, it leans more towards courtesy. However, if the underlying reason is to seek approval or avoid consequences, it may be seen as asking for permission.
– **Expectations:** Assess the expectations each partner has regarding communication. Discussing boundaries and preferences can help clarify what is considered courteous and when permission is needed.
– **Mutual Respect:** Both parties should aim to understand each other’s perspectives and show respect for their feelings and viewpoints. This mutual respect can lead to more harmonious communication and decision-making.
**Advice from Bhagavad Gita:**
In the Bhagavad Gita, Lord Krishna emphasizes the importance of performing one’s duty without attachment to the results. Applying this teaching to the situation, both partners can focus on their responsibilities within the relationship while being mindful of each other’s feelings.
**Conclusion:**
In conclusion, the line between courtesy and permission in a relationship is often blurred and can vary based on individual preferences and circumstances. By fostering open communication, mutual understanding, and respect, couples can navigate this delicate balance effectively. Ultimately, finding a middle ground and approaching situations with empathy and consideration can lead to a healthier and more harmonious relationship.
She’s right that it’s a courtesy, but she’s wrong to expect it every time.
Her tone is a much more serious issue that needs to be fixed.
>I would have popped my head in the door and let her know that I was running to the store real quick
Why would you do that? Because you do not want her to look around the house and be like ‘where is he’.
Now really think about that. Think about the situation and how she reacted. For her it is the same thing. Letting her know where you are going is not that big of a deal. Just a text to let her know.
You are letting your ego get the better of you here. Go apologize and just send her a damn text next time.
Courtesy is when you want to inform the person that you love, respect and care about when you are about to do something that might be of interest to them.
Permission is when you have to inform the person about everything that might be of interest to them before you even start doing it.
You are correct. Your wife wanting you to tell you where you are at all times seems like she is policing you. If you are going out to drinks after work you definitely call to let her know where you are and who you’re with as she would do for you.
Her tone could be a problem though. However, it may not change and you’ll just have to ask for clarification if she’s angry or just normal.
She was out doing things separately from you. I don’t think it’s reasonable that you should HAVE to tell her your wearabouts at all time. It’s weird to me that she reacted in such an aggressive way to this. Obviously it’s nice to keep in touch with your partner, but when you’re already doing things independently it shouldn’t be an expectation that you check in with her. Did she tell you every time she moved from one location to another while she was out?
I think it’s a courtesy. From your telling it sounds like your wife was a bit aggressive, but think through this specific situation:
You were working on a house project. While yes there are some projects that aren’t a risk for injury, say painting a wall without needing a ladder, a lot of home projects involve objects that can do a lot of harm if there’s an accident. So she gets home thinking her husband is going to be there working on a project only to find you not there. And you didn’t take the time to let her know you were leaving so she’s wondering if you were in a rush. And why would you be in a rush? If you were hurt and going to get help. So now she’s wondering if her husband is hurt trying to get to the hospital and did he make it there?
That thought process can happen in a few seconds. My dad fixes everything and when we know he’s fixing something and we’re not near we all keep an ear out. I can’t tell you the number of times we think we hear a suspicious noise and have gone running to make sure he’s ok only for it to just be a dropped piece of wood or wildlife making a weird noise. You still get that gut kick of fear and worry.
Is it possible that the context of the situation played into this at all? Like if she left you playing video games only to find you not at home it wouldn’t have had the same reaction?
Obligated courtesy isn’t necessary asking for permission. If she thinks she gets to tell you whether you can or can’t go, then it’s permission. But insisting on being told every time maybe cheapens the courtesy, and no one likes being told they have to do something.
That’s why you always leave a note.
Hi. I’m the wife. (Not OP’s wife but the wife that wants to know what’s going on.)
OP- Permission is when she plans to have a say in what you are doing. Courtesy is letting her know whats going on bc it affects her. My husband and I struggled with this early in out marriage. Here’s what we figured out. I am a planner and I squeeze a ton into my day. I am also a pretty anxious person so the planning helps with that.
I plan out my evening on my way home. Ie- I have 30 min to make dinner, eat w husband, then the kids need a bath….
If husband isn’t going to be home when I get there I might have a sandwhich and not cook a whole meal. Or I might stop for an errand on my way. His plans affect mine. If I get home and wait around for him my anxiety spikes and after a while it makes me irritable.
He does not plan anything so it didn’t even occur to him to let me know.
I don’t plan to decide what he’s doing so its not permission but I do factor him into my day so it is important to me to have an idea of his plan for the day or when he is going to be back.
Stop being defensive and take 2 seconds to shoot a text.
Her expectations are unrealistic
It stops being a courtesy when it’s being demanded.
One time I invited my ex to a DnD session at my home. Everyone was waiting for him to start and he didn’t answer his phone. We decided to go on with it as I figured he over slept. Turns out he had wanted to get some doughnuts for everyone in the session, his car broke down on the side of the road in the middle of winter, and he was too embarrassed to call me and tell me because he didn’t want me to be disappointed or worried and ruin the session. I was sitting there starting to get worried sick he died in his sleep or was just ghosting me anyways.
Since then and especially after a really bad car accident with my current partner a few weeks ago, I really do prefer if someone shoots a quick text letting me know they’re going out. Especially if it’s to the shops so I can let them know if we need something for the house.
I think it is common courtesy to let your partner know where are you are going. “Hey honey, I am running to Lowes and will be back in a few minutes” If it was about permssion, you would say “Honey, may I go to Lowes?” Thats the difference.
Some people are worry-warts and believe the worst thing is always about to happen. By taking 5 seconds to tell them where you are or when you will be home, reduces that anxiety.
Also, since you have kids, you may need to remind your wife to speak to you like an adult and not one of the kids. We can get so used to mom-mode that we forget to talk to the adults in our lives a bit different. 🙂
The only issue I see would be her tone, but I guess it’s all in how you’re raised. I’m 37 and still drop a text or leave a note if there is no one home and I go out.
I think context matters, always obviously. Example…this morning, while my husband was taking the kids to school I left the house and went for a walk in the neighborhood. That is extremely outside my norm, so I sent my husband a quick text “went for a walk.” I knew when he got back home, if he didn’t happen to see me when I was walking, he would wonder where I was. That’s a courtesy. There was no real reason for me to not be at home.
If my husband was at home working on a project and I got home and he wasn’t there, I would naturally assume he ran to the store for some tool or supply, and if he wasn’t home in an hour or so, I’d call to check in. I don’t think I’d be nasty or aggressive about it though?
People (“your” people) are generally where you know them to be, or where you reasonably expect them to be, and outside of that I would expect an explanation. I do not expect permission from my husband to run errands, I do expect the courtesy of checking in (both ways) if that requires one of us to be solely responsible for the children in return.
It is a courtesy, she’s right, because you never know what will happen and it takes you 5 seconds to say “I have to run to Lowes”
It’s not asking for permission, just stating a fact.
*however* it seems like you guys aren’t arguing with each other as much as you are arguing with something in the past. It happens a lot more than you’d think, when things hurt us in the past, they affect how we view things.
For example: (please note this is only an example, I’m not a therapist, or your therapist, I’m just using a tool from pre-marital counseling i did with my husband) did you happen to have a parent/parents who were constantly checking in? Making you feel like you were controlled every second? Maybe they went overboard or maybe they were just a little bit too controlling? They drive you nuts, maybe cost you some friends or caused constant frustration with their controlling nature?
Anything like that would naturally make you resistant to checking in, even in normal circumstances. But your current argument wouldn’t be with your wife, it’s with your memories of the pain your parents caused.
Did your wife have parents or caregivers who frequently left without yelling her, with no idea when they would get back? Just going off to do their own thing for however long they felt leaving her with a babysitter or alone with no knowledge of how long it would be? Or maybe a parent who abandoned her? Those would make her naturally need more reassurance about where you are and when you’ll be back. Her argument wouldn’t be with you, it’s with the pain people in her past have caused her by making her feel abandoned.
If anything I said was true: she came home, you weren’t there, she was immediately put into the emotional state of feeling abandoned and reached by trying to find you. *But* when she did, you felt controlled and nagged, like she was scolding or demeaning you, and reacted to that.
Neither of you would be wrong, but you would only be able to reach a compromise by both realizing what really upset you, and communicating that to each other, so that you both respond better.
A compromise might look like you agreeing to a short text when you need to go somewhere and she’s not there, not asking permission but informing her where you are going and possibly why (this gives her a rough idea of how long it will take, so that unless you are very late getting back, she doesn’t worry, but that she’ll be aware that you are late should something happen) and for her to agree that should you forget to do that, or have an emergency that doesn’t let you do that, she will give you a few minutes to get home before calling, will modulate her tone, and say something like “I didn’t know you’d left home, can you tell me when you might be back” instead of snapping.
Next time you leave and she’s not there, just leave a note on the counter. Easy peasy. People worry when the people they love just kind of disappear.
To answer your actual question, here’s what I could think of.
If you can do it on a sticky note on the counter or would text it with “FYI”, then it’s a **courtesy**.
* Example – Ran to the grocery
* Example – Just FYI, I’m stuck in traffic on my way home, will be late
If you need the other person to agree or consent to something, that’s asking for **permission**. The big thing here, if they say no and do not give their consent, it doesn’t happen.
* Example: Hey, my brother wants to know if we can watch the kids for him on Saturday. Can we? Are you okay with that?
* Example: I found the perfect gift for your dad for Christmas, may I please use your credit card to buy it?
* Example: The neighbor wants to know if she can dig up your flowers, would that be okay with you?
If you ask the other person their opinion about something so that the two of you can talk about what to do, that’s a **discussion**.
* Example: Hey, I need new running shoes, but they’re $350, do you think I should do that now or wait until after payday next week?
* Example: My sister asked us over for dinner next week, but little Billy has a ball game that day and I know you said you want to go to the fabric store on that day. But then again she’s making her famous turkey tetrazzini, what do you think?
So my husband will run to the auto store around the corner when he’s working on the cars. If I wasn’t home, I doubt he would feel the need to tell me as I would likely just assume that’s where he went. If I wonder then I call but it’s nothing to get mad about. If he was going to Lowe’s he probably would tell me because he would ask if I need anything. I wouldn’t get upset but say something like oh next time you go will you call me I need some things? Likely he would ask what I need and promptly go back to Lowe’s. If both people have to goal to get along, it helps a lot.
The discussion started about her tone and became about your obligated courtesy? Sounds like deflecting
i don’t think it’s a courtesy but i don’t think it’s permission either
i slightly understand her reasoning of safety but she’s going a bit too far with it. i let my husband know if i’m going to be gone for a while, especially if i know he’ll get home while i’m gone. cause then he’ll think “woah my wife is supposed to be home and she isn’t. what’s going on?” that’s just concern
to me, it seems that she was concerned but she went about it completely wrong. she should’ve been like “hey i got home and you weren’t here. where are you?” it’s not aggressive and shows actual concern for your well-being
something that i think calms us both is that we have our location on for each other. i know for a lot of people that seems controlling and like you’re being monitored all the time, and it can definitely be used that way. i use it to check how far away he is if he’s picking me up from work. or if he’s at work and i need to call him. or if i get home and he’s not there like i expect him to be. i started doing that when we were dating and i was taking ubers to work before i could afford a car. it gives us peace of mind
i would recommend that. then you won’t be confronted. although that confrontation does need to be resolved in itself. i’m sure a few couples counseling sessions could teach better communication skills. it is definitely something that needs to be taught, and she probably wouldn’t feel so attacked and get defensive if a trained professional is explaining things
You’re wife is right and that it’s a simple common courtesy. Not asking permission. It takes literally two seconds to send a text message. Not a hard concept.
I’m team unless you’re home when I leave I’ll be back when I get back. I’m grown
I always let my husband know just automatically, it’s a quick text
I think the real issue here is less about the thing she is asking and more about the way she asked it.
To get the first point out of the way, it’s fair to ask nicely that you let her know if you are running out unexpectedly. It’s unfair to ask that (and like you said in the comments) refuse to return the same favor to you. If she wants you to let her know where you will be at all times, she has to be willing to do the same to you.
That aside, the bigger issue is the way she talks to you. It sounds like she has anger issues. I would adress that before anything else. I would not be willing to participate in any conversations with someone who talks down to me or is always angry with me.
It’s a courtesy not asking for permission, but I can understand how it could feel that way if her tone was angry/irritated. Sounds like you both weren’t on the same page and she just assumed you were, so she was mad/upset when she figure you were just being super inconsiderate (or that you were hurt or something).
IMO tone is worth some arguing over, especially if she clearly has this problem at work and with others. She needs to not assume people are just going to read her mind and know what she thinks is the right way to do something and not to judge them when they aren’t doing it her way. She’d have better luck explaining something nicely than starting out swinging. But for your part, I would say that it’s a common courtesy to tell your family the bones of what you are doing, so they can plan around you and so you don’t startle them—plus, having someone know is safer for you, too.
If my wife runs out somewhere when I’m not home, that’s NORMAL. If I get home and then want to know where she is, I text her. Neither of us would chastise the other for this.
My take is that the two of you are conflating two different issues and don’t realize it.
Issue 1:
It’s common courtesy to let your partner know when you’re making an unplanned outing. It’s easy to send a quick text. It eliminates wondering where you are and/or worries and helps with logistics.
Issue 2:
If I’m interpreting you correctly, your wife doesn’t feel the need to communicate respectfully. Her tone is what made you feel like she’s entitled to control over you. My wife used to do this until we worked it out. Any time she would do this, I’d tell her that her manner of speaking was not appropriate and then go business mode until she apologized and meant it. No cruelty, no arguing, just short, neutral responses and no unprompted engagement. People like her like conflict. You take that away, and it’s just not that fun for them.
Okay so permission is you asking get to go out and courtesy is what you didn’t do and let your wife know you were stepping out. YOU actually are wrong here if you didn’t want to have to let someone know when you step out then you don’t get into a serious committed relationship.
It’s courtesy not permission and it’s not just your safety that should be considered. Imagine if she thought you were home right so she’s walking around in the house and hears noises, thinks it’s you but lo and behold, you have left and it’s a burglar or worst?
See where I’m going with this? If you had shot her a text hun running out quick for a piece or whatever she would know, no one should be home so she would get out.
You have issues and need to figure out why you seen her asking for a courtesy text as permission
It’s not what she said it’s the tone, and a tone can be pretty condescending
It sounds like control rather than courtesy. There’s a balance, but informing your partner of your every move, particularly when they’re not home and you’re on a quick errand, is unnecessary.
She shouldn’t speak to you with that tone, however you should send her a quick text or leave a note. She’s right about courtesy, but she’s wrong about her reaction to not receiving it
Call: totally fine to do, you weren’t home when she expected you to be. Explanation: oh, I ran to Lowe’s, I’ll be back in a few. Response: oh ok cool, sounds good.
Even better: if it’s a store the other might want something at, “hey going to Lowe’s anything you can think of we need?”
Calling and being super aggressive because I decided to run a 5 minute errand: that’s control, not courtesy. I don’t need someone to parent me.
We leave notes. Both retired. He’s up early, I sleep late. Sometimes he goes fishing down the road or to get lottery tickets ( in a neighboring state). He leaves me a note with a cup of coffee )bless him). I may leave before he gets home. I leave a note or text where I’ll be. If something happens, they have a starting point to look for the other. We’re a bit careful because we both lost siblings to murder. You should want to have an idea where your wife may be for this reason alone. By virtue of her sex, she is more likely to be a victim of violent crime.
Why does she have the double standard? That’s what I want to know from your edit. Why don’t have to do it but she doesn’t?
I’m sorry but her reaction is stupid. She was out and about and you left to go to the store real quick. Did she text you that she was on her way home? If she had, you would have had the opportunity to tell her you were at Lowe’s. She caused her own panic. Communication is a two way street!
I hate the idea of telling my husband every time I leave the house. It makes me feel like a kept woman, when in reality it is so much more freeing to go about my day without reporting out my every move. I’ll tell him my plans for the day, and we communicate throughout the day as needed. We will call or text each other when we are leaving somewhere like work or a friend’s house etc as an fyi headed home, and that’s about it. That was a good compromise for us.
I do feel like there are two separate issues here intertwined into one situation.
You should shoot a text just as a consideration.
She clearly needs to work on her tone issue. The tone stuff sets me off because I grew up with a dad who had an awful tone, always accusatory regardless of what was going on.
Yeah this is a weird false dichotomy. You’re both wrong. There’s not, like, a gradient from permission to courtesy. It’s permission if they’re allowed to tell you not to go. It’s courtesy if it’s generally understood to be a thing most people expect of their partners. This is neither.
You’re right that it’s weird and intrusive to always have to text your wife when you’re going to the store for 10 minutes and she’s not home. She’s right that she’s not asking you to ask her permission. She’s not trying to keep you from going. She just wants to know where you are at all times.
And that, in and of itself, is intrusive. It’s like if your partner wanted you to text them from work every time you took a bathroom break. It doesn’t have to be asking permission for it to be intrusive. I feel like that’s where the breakdown in conversation is.
It goes from being courtesy to permission when you can’t do it unless the other person says yes.
It’s pretty rude, imo, to not tell your spouse where you are, especially if you go somewhere you hadn’t mentioned previously. And it should be reciprocated. But it isn’t permission.
Your lives are intertwined and so even if it doesn’t seem like it to you, it can create uncertainty and a sense of being disregarded for her.
Man, these comments are crazy. The fact that she’s never felt the need to let you know every time she leaves the house, but expects you to do it pushes this beyond courtesy or permission and into controlling territory. Rules for thee, but not for me? And the fact that she has an attitude about it? If the roles were reversed, everyone here would be calling for your head.
Communication is one of the most important parts of a relationship.
My opinion is generally if I can reasonably expect my wife to get home while I am out, or we have previously discussed timings for the day she gets a message.
Back before cell phones I would say writing a quick note would be a courtesy, but since cell phones make all of us just a text away, I don’t see the big deal.
And as a wife, I would be so pissed if my husband called in that pissed parent tone, “where are you!?”. If I’ve said it once I’ve said it a thousand times, I’m your wife, not your mom. I don’t give permission. No, nope, not happening that my spouse talks to me like a parent. Change your tone or you’ll be met with the same attitude.
I’m with your wife. I tell my husband every time I go out, where I’m going, what I’m doing outside, just in case I go missing. Most of the time it is only a WhatsApp voice message. But I’m nuts so maybe don’t listen to me on this one.