#California #Sibling #Overdose #Debt #Probate #EstateAttorney
Losing a sibling is a devastating experience, and it can be even more challenging when you are left to navigate their financial affairs. Dealing with the aftermath of a loved one’s passing is never easy, and it’s completely normal to feel overwhelmed and unsure of what steps to take next. In the wake of your sibling’s tragic overdose, it’s essential to seek guidance and support in handling their debt and financial obligations.
In this article, we’ll discuss the necessary steps to take when dealing with a deceased sibling’s estate and whether you need to hire a probate/estate attorney in the state of California. We’ll provide you with valuable insights and information to help you through this difficult time.
## Understanding Probate and Estate Administration
Before diving into the specifics of your situation, it’s important to understand the concept of probate and estate administration. Probate is the legal process through which a deceased person’s debts are paid and assets are distributed to their heirs. Estate administration involves the overall management and settlement of a deceased individual’s financial and personal affairs.
In California, the probate process is overseen by the Superior Court in the county where the deceased person lived at the time of their death. The purpose of probate is to ensure that the deceased person’s debts are paid, and their remaining assets are distributed according to their will or state law if there is no will in place.
### Do You Need a Probate/Estate Attorney?
The decision to hire a probate or estate attorney depends on various factors, including the value of the deceased person’s estate, the complexity of their financial affairs, and their outstanding debts. Here are some key considerations to keep in mind:
1. **Asset Threshold**: In California, if the value of the deceased person’s estate is below a certain threshold, probate may not be necessary. As of 2022, the threshold is $166,250, excluding the value of real estate. If your brother’s estate falls below this threshold, you may not be required by law to go through the probate process.
2. **Debts Exceeding Assets**: If your sibling’s debts surpass the value of their assets, their estate is considered insolvent. In this scenario, the probate process may not be necessary, as there are no remaining assets to distribute. However, it’s crucial to handle the communication with creditors and debt collectors appropriately to ensure that you are not held personally responsible for your sibling’s debts.
3. **Complex Financial Affairs**: If your sibling’s financial affairs are intricate, involving multiple creditors, outstanding loans, and potentially contested assets, seeking the guidance of a probate or estate attorney can provide you with invaluable legal expertise and support. An attorney can help you navigate the complexities of the probate process and ensure that you fulfill your obligations while protecting your own interests.
4. **Unclaimed Assets**: It’s possible that your sibling may have unclaimed assets, such as life insurance policies, retirement accounts, or other financial accounts that you are not aware of. An experienced probate attorney can assist you in conducting a thorough search for unclaimed assets and properly distributing them according to the law.
### Steps to Take in Closing Out Your Brother’s Financial Affairs
In light of your brother’s passing and the substantial debt he left behind, here are some essential steps to consider as you navigate the process of closing out his financial life:
1. **Gather Important Documents**: Start by gathering essential documents related to your brother’s financial affairs, including bank statements, loan agreements, credit card statements, and any estate planning documents he may have had in place.
2. **Contact Creditors and Debt Collectors**: Communicate with your brother’s creditors and debt collectors to notify them of his passing and inquire about the outstanding debts. Be sure to provide them with a copy of the death certificate as documentation.
3. **Identify Assets and Liabilities**: Take inventory of your brother’s assets, such as bank accounts, real estate, vehicles, personal belongings, and investments, as well as his liabilities, including outstanding debts, loans, and financial obligations.
4. **Consult with a Probate/Estate Attorney**: If you are uncertain about whether the probate process is necessary or if you encounter difficulties in handling your brother’s financial affairs, seek the guidance of a qualified probate or estate attorney. They can offer tailored legal advice based on the specifics of your situation and help you navigate the complexities of the estate administration process.
5. **Address Unresolved Legal Matters**: If your brother had any unresolved legal matters, such as pending litigation, disputes, or claims against his estate, it’s crucial to address these issues promptly with the assistance of legal counsel.
6. **Distribute Remaining Assets**: If there are remaining assets in your brother’s estate after settling his debts, work with legal professionals to ensure that the assets are distributed in accordance with your brother’s wishes or state law if there is no will.
### Conclusion
Losing a sibling is a deeply emotional experience, and the added responsibility of handling their financial affairs can feel overwhelming. As you navigate the aftermath of your brother’s passing and the complex nature of his debt, it’s important to seek support and guidance from knowledgeable professionals who can help you through the process.
While you may not be required to go through the probate process if your brother’s estate falls below the threshold set by California law, it’s advisable to consider consulting with a probate or estate attorney to ensure that you fulfill your obligations and protect your interests.
Remember that you don’t have to navigate this challenging journey alone. Reach out to legal professionals, financial advisors, and other trusted individuals who can provide the support and expertise you need during this difficult time. By taking proactive steps and seeking professional guidance, you can navigate the process of closing out your brother’s financial life with greater confidence and peace of mind.
if he had no assets, then just get lots of copies of the death certificate. your only response to creditors should be ” he died” and send them a copy if they require it
I’ve never gone thru this myself, doesn’t sound like you’ll need a lawyer. Your brother owns nothing of value, and if he did his debts far outweigh that. Sounds like your family will be harassed by different collections agencies…as far as i know you have no legal obligation to pay anything back (that you weren’t co-signers on), so don’t get “guilted” into paying a cent.
I’m sorry to hear you’re going through this. I went through this with my Father-in-Law, but he died without a will and had assets so it’s a little different circumstance but same process. What I learned from being the Estate’s Executor is that his debts were his estate’s problem and not your family’s. Several credit card companies I contacted in that process made it clear that nothing was owed me or my family. Whatever you do, don’t pay any of the debts out of your own pocket.
I would recommend getting a copy of his death certificate and photocopy it enough to send each lender you’re aware of their own copy. If you want to talk to these companies and explain that he essentially died with no assets, thus there will be no estate you can add your cell number on a sticky note. They’ll call, you can count on it. Tell the representative (they’ll record the conversation) that you’re handling his affairs and found that he had an account with your company and that you wished to inform them that your brother died with no assets and if any assets are discovered an estate will be opened and they can find the estate notice in your local newspaper. After that, they shouldn’t harass you if they’re reputable because they know fair debt collection can’t happen with no assets.
One other piece of advice I can give is to take things day by day, you’re probably going to go through a lot of emotions as time passes. If you end up contacting the banks/loan holders keep a notebook of the phone number you called, the time, who you spoke to and a general summary of what you said. You may need to later. You’ll get through it, just do what you can each day and the rest will wait for tomorrow.
Do not pay any of his debts and any assets he had belong to his estate to pay his creditors. Get many copies of his death certificate as you will need them.
I’m sorry for your loss.
The proper way to handle all of this is with probate and an estate executor. I sounds like you are volunteering to be his executor. That is nice of you.
Start here:
[https://store.nolo.com/products/how-to-probate-an-estate-in-california-pae.html](https://store.nolo.com/products/how-to-probate-an-estate-in-california-pae.html)
Based on your description of his finances, it sounds like he has no assets. So his creditors will be out of luck. Neither you nor your family are obligated to pay his creditors. Don’t forget that some collection agents will lie to you. Some will claim that they will sue. Just tell them there is no need to sue. Just send the estate executor a letter of what is owned and it will registered as a claim on the estate.
Don’t take it personally if they sue the estate or file a claim. They have to make sure they have done what they are legally able to collect what it owed. Just having a relative tell them that there isn’t any money isn’t suffiencent because it doesn’t prove that is true.
I am not aware of any California law that requires you or another family member to be his executor. You could just step away and let the county probate office deal with it. It will be slow and expensive. If there were assets to inherit, then you would not want that.
>he owed about $170k across multiple CC’s, personal lines of credit and student loans. As we’re in California, I keep hearing about estates and probates
An “estate” exists and a probate process exists whenever and wherever someone dies in America even if the USD value of that “estate” is $0.
>Every bank thus far where he carried a balance is saying they’ll be sending it to collections but there is literally nothing to collect.
Exactly. There is nothing to collect from an “estate” with a USD value of $0 but the orderly line of creditors forms anyway.
To answer your question. California law requires assets over $180k to go through probate. So it sounds like this case, he has no asset that large. So probate is not required.
[https://consumer.ftc.gov/articles/debts-and-deceased-relatives#whoisresponsible](https://consumer.ftc.gov/articles/debts-and-deceased-relatives#whoisresponsible)
>Who is responsible for a deceased person’s debts?
>
>As a rule, a person’s debts do not go away when they die. Those debts are owed by and paid from the deceased person’s estate. By law, family members usually don’t have to pay the debts of a deceased relative from their own money. If there isn’t enough money in the estate to cover the debt, it usually goes unpaid. But there are exceptions to this rule. You may be personally responsible for the debt if you
>
>cosigned the obligation, like a car loan
>
>are the deceased person’s spouse and live in a community property state, such as California
>
>are the deceased person’s spouse and live in a state that requires you to pay certain kinds of debt, like some healthcare expenses
>
>were legally responsible for resolving the estate and didn’t follow certain state probate laws
>
>If you have questions about whether you’re legally required to pay a deceased person’s debts from your own money, talk to a lawyer. Depending on your income, you may qualify for free legal services from a legal aid organization near you.
You and your family have no liability as a result of your brother’s death and outstanding debts. Creditors cannot come after you. Like another poster mentioned, get plenty of certified copies of the death certificate to mail to creditors upon their request. Get at least a dozen copies, and scan one for digital access. Really depends on how many creditors/accounts he had, plus some extra.
I’m sorry for your loss. Try to think of him as the brother you grew up with before drugs took that away. I’m sure there was a lot of drama before he became estranged, but the person he was is the way I’m he would want to be remembered.
Sorry to hear that. If there are no children/spouse and he was over 18 – I’m pretty sure you can just send copies of the death certificate to the banks. Unless they co-signed no one from the family should be on the hook.
If they can even find you to ask for it. You should ask an attorney. If it were me I might buy a legal shield membership for a month and ask an attorney or just ignore the banks because who cares about them. 🤷♂️just my opinion
Thanks for taking the advice here. There’s a lot of really good info that I wish I had months ago.
There’s a handful of people saying to get a dozen copies of the death certificate. My dad died in August. I got 3 because they were kinda expensive for a piece of paper and money was tight. I still have them after dealing with every account/institution tied to my dad. Most places will just make a copy, you can always get more.
Not a lawyer but it doesn’t look like you need probate unless you REALLY, REALLY care about his old beater car. Which, I assume, the banks would probably try to take anyway if you open up probate, because money.
It would be worth collecting the plates off the car if you find it and taking them to the DMV just to tie up that loose end.
Don’t pay debt collectors a dime. If you do, you’re on the hook.
Other than that, take it day by day. I don’t know if you were close but if you’ve hit your limit for the day, that’s ok. Just put things down and start again tomorrow.
Is he partial owner on family properties?
If not, you really don’t need to do anything.
I just went through this with my father. He owed $35K medical and IRS debt BUT because he had no assets (no estate) his debts are essentially forgiven. He died with $10 in his bank account, owned no real estate, and the car he owned was appraised for less than the cost of his own cremation.
I went to the Register of Wills with a bank statement, death certificate, will, and receipt from the funeral home. They gave me a Letter of Small Estate and indicated it was Non-Probate. Basically a legal proof that his estate was less than the cost of death, thereby waiving probate. Probate is the process of dividing assets and paying off debts.
Make sure you get a letter of small estate and a death certificate.
{Edit: I am the named executor of the will so this was my responsibility}
His debt died with him.. Unless any ones name was on any debt, ignore it.. Sounds like he had no assets, so again nothing to do.. Greive and dont think at all about his debt.. If anyone calls you, ignore them! ~unless your name is on it, co-signed,ect..
My condolences to you and your family.
I recently had a family member pass in California. The debts are the deceased and not the family’s. Don’t feel obligated in any way for the debts – send them a photocopy of the death certificate with “Deceased” written on any correspondence and mail it back!
The one exception is the coroners fees. I found out the hard way about that. Whoever signs the paperwork to have the remains released from the coroner’s office will be liable for the “Transport and storage” fees. In Los Angeles County that was $400! Since I arranged the funeral I signed off only to get billed by the County.
I also arranged the funeral. I used “All California Cremations” in Palm Desert – very professional and economical. They provided me with the necessary death certificates too.
Having just gone through this myself I know how hard it is emotionally. Take things day by day.
I’m sorry you’re going through this and I’m sorry for the loss of your brother. My brother also OD’ed in California with no assets but very little debt and some beater he left in FL. We honestly did nothing. If some one called we just told them he died. After a while they stopped calling. I’ll never forget the rehab that called asking about him and when informed of his death said “that’s a bummer”. I wanted to fly out there and ring her neck. Don’t put any effort in. Provide death certificates if they’re requested. Don’t take on any liability.
You don’t have to do anything other than to say he’s dead, like another poster said. You don’t acknowledge his debt. You don’t acknowledge his negative asset. The only thing you need to acknowledge is his death.
That’s all your family members including your parents should do.
Debtors will try to bully you into paying his debt or owning his debt. They will try to say that the next of kin owns the debt. They will try to say the executor of the estate owns the debt.
None of that is true. Debt is not inherited. No one needs to step forward as executor.
However, if anyone pays a single penny to a debt, then that can be used to say they now own the debt.
So, the best thing to do is only acknowledge that he died.
If he died intestate, without a will, you will hafta do probate at least in MA. CA laws might be different, though.
Get the death certificates and start calling up all the entities that he was in debt to. My mum died $18, 848.68 in debt. No one could get money from a stone. The only place that gave me a hassle was MA Dept of Revenue. I finally asked if they really needed to see her, that I could put her cremains in an envelope and mail her to them. They passed on that and let me alone after that. Thank the Gods it was way before all the anthrax scares or I might just be getting out of jail.
Unless YOU or your family are on any of the credit cards, loans or such, you don’t hafta pay anything of his bills.
I am so very sorry for your loss.
This document has some good “first steps” kind of advice. I’d really recommend picking ONE person to be the administrator of the estate, if a bunch of you are taking care of it, things will get real confused real fast.
https://www.courts.ca.gov/8865.htm
My dad died and had about $25k in credit card debt. You’re not responsible for it and you can ask an attorney to prepare paperwork if there’s any major assessets. I had to take the death certificate to a few places to access his bank account.
I’m so sorry for your loss. What an awful thing to have to deal with.
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I want to advise you to keep at least one account in his name open. If he gets a check from anything you won’t be able to cash it. So the recommendation is that it stay open for a year.
If he had no assets, there’s nothing to probate.Id ck in with a lawyer, but I believe his creditors are just SOL. You’ll probably have to get multiple copies of the death certificate to distribute ute to those creditors.
This happened to me with my brother. We essentially just said he died & had zero assets. No one asked for any paperwork yet. Sorry you are going through this too.
I went through this a few years ago. My bro owed about 600k. I went through the paperwork I could find, made an excel file with contact info and called everyone I could find to notify them. I wanted to tie up his loose ends.
Sorry for your lost if there is no estate which means his debts exceed his assets & money. Debts died with him. Just sent a photo copy of the death certificate to any collector. Note collectors are known to lie and say a parent or sibling owes the debt.
In California and other community states a spouse inherent debt they never signed for, In common laws states that type dept dies with the spouse.
The fees you have pay to be a executor or hire a lawyer are too high in California for a estate with no money, so just do nothing In a few years after collectors have done there collections check abandoned property offices in California and Delaware(most banks are chartered in DE) The next of kin can then inherent anything that is abandoned
***Not an attorney or giving legal advice and I’m speaking generally in the US (might vary in CA)*** If you are going to respond, talk to an attorney first as they’ll likely tell you just don’t respond. Letting them know that he passed is not necessary and if there are any remaining assets that could be used to pay for a funeral, left to kids, etc. It’s better to not offer up that info unnecessarily given there’s a statute of limitations in most states for a creditor to file a claim against the estate. It’s often advantageous to hold off on opening the estate to prevent the risk of creditors being alerted and filing claims.
A similar thing happened in our family. If the bill collectors even figure out how to get ahold of you just tell them he’s dead. Sometimes they hound you for a death certificate but if there’s no estate it doesn’t matter. You don’t need to call anyone. And if you do come across a little bit of money he had if your state is like mine you can put it towards the final costs-cremation or whatever you choose.
The advice here seems sound, but personally would find out from a local attorney. A brief consultation shouldn’t cost you too much. Be well.
They’ll try to guilt trip you into paying them, but unless you co-signed or where on the paperwork, you legally don’t have to payback them
It’s the banks problem… if they call you, tell them he died and that you’ll sue them for harassment if they call back.
If you get called by collectors
##Do not accept any responsibility for the debt.
It was his debt not yours or your families. These collectors are scum of the earth and may try to get you to accept responsibility.
Read up on The Fair Debt Collections Act
If he had no assets they can pound sand.
This exact scenario happened to me and my brother (found dead in his appt, minus the od). He had about 50k in student loan debt and I called the creditor and told them he had passed and literally just said okay and I never heard from them again. I don’t even think they asked me for a death certificate oddly enough but I would have at least 8 to 10 copies for all creditors you come across. I usually just called them up on the phone and told them my brother died and they asked me to mail or email a copy of a cert. It’s a frustrating process but you will get through it. And honestly this is even if you care to, you could leave them on read for the rest of eternity and it will be okay because hes dead and nothing to come after. The mailings were a nuisance so eventually I just called them all up so I could stop getting those mailings and I could focus on the mail that did matter like 401k and bank statements and such. So sorry for your loss by the way this is such a tragic thing to go through.