#WorkLifeBalance #DeveloperLife #ReasonableHours
Hey there! So, you’ve had a bit of a curveball thrown your way regarding work expectations, huh? Don’t worry, you’re not alone in this. It’s definitely a hot topic in the tech industry, and it’s something that many developers are grappling with.
First off, let me just say that it’s totally understandable that you’re feeling a bit taken aback by the expectation of working 45+ hours a week, especially if that’s not the norm in your previous experience. Work-life balance is a crucial consideration, and it’s important that you prioritize your well-being and happiness.
However, before jumping to any conclusions, let’s unpack this a bit.
Here are a few things to consider:
1. Company Culture: Different companies have different expectations when it comes to work hours. While some may prioritize long hours and dedication, others may place a higher value on efficiency and work-life balance.
2. Nature of the Work: The nature of the work that’s expected from you can also play a role in the required hours. Is it a high-pressure, fast-paced environment, or is it more laid-back and flexible?
3. Personal Boundaries: It’s important to consider your own personal boundaries and what you’re comfortable with. If working long hours doesn’t align with your values and priorities, it’s okay to prioritize that.
It’s important to remember that there’s no one-size-fits-all answer to this. Different individuals have different thresholds for work hours, and what works for one person may not work for another.
You mentioned that you believe that developers can’t do more than 30-35 hours a week without compromising quality and speed elsewhere. This is a valid point, and it’s not uncommon for this to be the case.
Quality over quantity is a mantra that many developers live by. After all, it’s not just about putting in the hours—it’s about producing high-quality work that adds value to the organization.
If you’re feeling uncertain about whether it’s worth holding out for a job that aligns with your philosophy, consider these pointers:
1. Prioritize Your Well-being: Your mental and physical well-being should always come first. It’s essential to find a work environment that supports and respects your need for work-life balance.
2. Open Communication: If you’re feeling hesitant about the work expectations, it’s always a good idea to have an open and honest conversation with the company. Express your concerns and see if there’s room for negotiation or compromise.
3. Company Values: Assess whether the company’s values and culture align with your own. If the work expectations are a fundamental part of the company’s culture, it may be challenging to find a middle ground.
Ultimately, it’s a personal decision that requires careful consideration. It’s all about finding a balance that works for you and enables you to thrive both personally and professionally.
Remember, your well-being matters, and there are plenty of opportunities out there that can offer a healthy work-life balance while still allowing you to make a meaningful impact.
So, no, you’re not crazy for wanting to find a job that values your output over the number of hours clocked in. It’s all about finding the right fit for you.
Good luck on your job search, and remember to prioritize what matters most to you! 🌟👩💻
Doesn’t seem super reasonable to me. I wouldn’t do it.
At minimum that’s what, 260 extra hours a year? You could spend that time with family, friends, hobbies, or just taking care of yourself.
Unless their PTO policy is insane, that expectation is too much IMO.
Sounds illegal, does it say you will be doing 40 and there is an unpaid 5 hours of overtime?
>She said something like “some roles are hourly and some are salaried and salaried people are expected to work at least 45 hours a week”. That seems crazy to me
Even in the EU where it is illegal, there are people in tech that work 12 hour days, 4 of which are unpaid. Now that is insane, but, supply and demand.
It is out of touch. 40 hours is already quite a lot for development work. I highly doubt that those extra hours are being spent productively. It’s mostly a sign of abusive management that wants people working long hours so they can feel important
For me, working extra hours without an emergency is a boundary that I’m not going to cross. I don’t slack off during the 40 hours I have, so if I can’t get my work done in that time, it’s not an effort failure. It’s a planning failure
I was told that at my current role. Mmmmm, sometimes you work more than that, sometimes you don’t
I wouldn’t spazz out over whether it’s out of touch or not.
It’s either something you agree to or it’s not.
And it’s what you agree to in exchange for a specific salary and job…
>Am I crazy to hold out for a job that is happy with me producing a reasonable amount of work no matter how many hours it took me to get there?
No, not crazy, just risking having to be unemployed for an indeterminate amount of time…
And the problem is knowing exactly what a reasonable amount of work is and who is judging that.
If you mean that it will be a reasonable amount of work regardless of whether it it takes you 2 days to do a 2 day task or 2 weeks to do a 2 day task, then it might be a lot harder to find a place that agrees with that philosophy.
>I’ve always had the philosophy that devs can’t do more than 30-35 hrs a week without compromising quality and speed elsewhere.
Ok, but your philosophies aren’t necessarily going to change what your manager thinks. And a lot of businesses/managers don’t care much about code quality or technical debt, so that could also reduce the number of places you’d do well at. But if you really were “experienced” you’d know this, right?
A couple buddies work at a hedge fund and its basically expected they work 50-60 hour weeks. Plus “always be available”. Not strictly on call, but always unofficially on-call. One is a manager type and pulls more like 70 hour weeks. Its just madness. Hard pass on that nonsense.
I mean how are these counted? My mid size tech company is 40 hours a week and likes to see “45” but we don’t get tracked other than on tickets etc. we put in the hours we worked manually. So…
No lmao. The market’s absolutely shit for most devs. Employers know that if you don’t wanna do the work, then someone else will.
It is 12.5% lower compensation compared to job that pays the same and is 40 hrs job
It’s pretty simple. Outsize working hours require outsize compensation. If you’re throwing enough money at me then 45 hrs a week is doable. If not, then pass.
Maybe? It would certainly annoy me on principal.
However in reality my enjoyment of a job, and number of hours worked has only been very loosely correlated. So I probably shouldn’t care about it as much as I do.
HR recruiters are quite out of touch with actual development ways. Even if their perception is that folks work 45+ hours, in reality, you should not be working more than 30 hours on an average.
If the TC is good, I would take it and make sure I maintain the illusion of a 50 hour work week.
One big caveat, it’s never a 20 hour or 50 hour work week. It’s on how you have sold yourself during the interview and expectations from you.
If you have projected yourself as a senior dev, the expectations would be higher. As a result, if you’re not really that senior, guess what, your work week would be 50 hours, as you catch up on the learning curve. On the other hand if you truly are the senior dev, you might do one 60 hour week and then optimize it down to 25, but continue to project that 45+ hour work week.
They hiring juniors? Thatd give me an extra 10 hours to learn compared to my current job, changing career fields is rough
Work-life balance and hours of expected work don’t always exactly correlate. A well-organized, structured place potentially has a lot less stress and contributes to work-life balance. Are they flexible and understand that personal life issues come up?
I may be wrong about this, but it feels like some people do not consider meetings to be work, and they only refer to active development. Unless you are in crunch mode or facing some other out of the ordinary scenario, you likely aren’t coding 8-9 hours a day.
So, I personally don’t see anything above 40 hours as an automatic red flag. There are some other things that factor in.
That’s more than 8.5hour days? Does that include a lunch already?
Depending on how desperate I am for a job my response ranges from “Fuck’em” to “it beats having no income”
How desperate are you? If you’ve got savings, a spouse making a good salary and/or all expenses covered then sure… hold out. If you’re desperate then take it and keep applying. Nothing is keeping you from staying on the market.
I’m not working more than 40 hours a week unless the pay is phenomenal, and I doubt that small company is going to pay anything special. Realistically I work more like 30-35 hours a week with occasional 40 hour weeks, but I’m always available 40 hours a week.
I’ve been in a similar situation while unemployed. If your unemployed, take the job anyways, work like normal and keep looking
depends on industry
Lmao I have never worked a job that isn’t at least 50hrs a week. Usually more
I’ve spent about 35 years as a programmer and never had a job that required I put in more than 40 hours. I would occasionally do so if it was important, but I bet I can count the times I did that on one hand.
To be fair, I was picky about where I worked. I would never choose to work at a company that had a culture where working over 40 hours was expected or normal or required.
If a company said at least 45 hours/week was required I would walk away unless I was absolutely desperate for a job. If I had to take it, I would continue looking for something better.
Incredibly out of touch unless they are going to pay you a comparably out of touch salary.
It’s a tactic to pressure more work out of people. Annual pay is calculated at an hourly rate times 40 hours/week even if you’re salaried. It’s insane (and possibly illegal?) to expect more than that up front.
You gotta factor in 2 hour lunches and 1 hour breaks.
You definitely don’t want to work anywhere where there’s any enforcement of number of hours worked, like clocking in or surveillance of your computer. That being said, it could happen without your knowledge anyway. Just try your best to avoid it and avoid this job unless you need a job in very short order.
Counter with an offer to do private consulting and quote them an hourly rate. Let’s see how “sustainable” and “profitable” their business model is.
Depending on the pay. The higher the band the more workaholic you would see
You’re not crazy, you’re being reasonable.
Places like that are toxic and not worth it.
I think I’d rather be hourly at this place. Seems like its one of those companies that believes that giving you a salary gives them a right to overwork you for no extra pay
Are They Willing to Pay the Price it Takes to Get What They Want?
at the very least they ought to “pay” for the extra expected work… because 35-40 hr weeks should be the norm
I would interpret that as actually closer to 55 in practice, maybe more.
I’d need to be getting mad bills to put in that much time regularly, especially if I’m salaried, and especially especially if this is just an arbitrary expectation and you’re supposed to be there overtime just sitting doing nothing if you have to.
You are being sent a signal.
“You are not welcome here.”
Listen to it.
I mean it depends on pay. I’d be ok with it if they pay a premium
I’ve done the whole 45 – 60 hours before but only when they had the money to throw at me for expensive overtime.
Welcome to the recession
If the base pay was 150k or more sure…think of it this way 45 hrs a week is just 9 hour days. Get in at 9, leave at 6, 1 hour lunch break, that is 9 hour day, 45 hr week easy. I would easily pull that and then some and it wasn’t expected simply because i was working at home, wander down the hall around 8-8:30, answer some e-mails, my day starts. At lunch I at at my desk at home so count that as working, log off around 5:30-6, that is an easy 10 hour day, M-F. The problem comes in if it wasn’t remote, so then you have to deal with commute time. If I have to commute I figured that my time wasted in the car because they wanted me in an office was basically “on the clock” time.
They want you to work AT LEAST 12% more hours per week. If the salary isn’t +12% over the median engineer salary in your area, I’d laugh them off
Seeing these responses is making me grateful to be european
I already clock 60hrs a week
I love how “tales of two worlds” this sub is.
One one side you’ve got people desperate for a job and on the other side you’ve got people like, “dont you dare overwork me”
**Neither are an issue but it’s funny to see nonetheless**
Apple in 1983 – 90 hours a week and loving it.
There’s a huge difference between working 45+ hours per week and being available 45+ hours per week. I think being available 40-50 hours per week, including during core hours is reasonable. If you have to punch a clock and prove how you’re spending that time then I wouldn’t want to stay there long.
Most of the developers I have worked with over the years have put in 45-55 hrs/week. But I’ve observed that this is becoming rarer. Younger devs today definitely seem to be working fewer hours than the previous generations. For better or worse.
Personally I feel compelled to work longer hours (50-70 hours every week), but that’s just me and I never put pressure on my team to match that. In fact I try to hide it from them so that they don’t feel any pressure.
The reason I do it isn’t because my bosses are pressuring me or that it’s a company standard but just that I get kind of obsessed with getting a lot of tasks accomplished and admittedly have taken on too many things on my plate. It’s hard to just ignore a mountain of projects that need to get done that my team is responsible for.