#ModernHybridCars #PlugInHybrid #GasEngine #DieselEngine #HybridPair #DieselHybrid #PassengerCar #HybridTechnology
When it comes to modern hybrid and plug in hybrid cars, most people wonder why they are always paired with gas engines instead of diesel engines. It seems like a great concept on paper, so why aren’t manufacturers developing diesel hybrids? In this article, we’ll explore the reasons behind this decision and shed some light on the dynamics of hybrid technology.
###Reasons for Gas Engine Pairing
1. **Emission Regulations**
– The biggest reason why most hybrid cars are paired with gas engines is due to emission regulations. Diesel engines are notorious for emitting high levels of nitrogen oxides (NOx) and particulate matter, which have severe health and environmental impacts.
– In order to comply with strict emission standards, car manufacturers have opted for gas engines in hybrid technology as they produce lower levels of harmful emissions compared to diesel engines.
2. **Market Demand**
– Another contributing factor is the market demand for hybrid cars. The majority of consumers are more familiar with gas engines and feel more comfortable with them, whereas diesel engines are often associated with commercial or heavy-duty vehicles.
– The preference for gas engines in hybrid cars is a result of catering to consumer familiarity and acceptance of the technology.
3. **Technology Compatibility**
– Gas engines are more compatible with the integration of hybrid technology. Their design and functionality make it easier to incorporate electric motors and batteries, resulting in a seamless transition between gas and electric propulsion.
– Diesel engines, on the other hand, present more challenges in terms of hybrid integration and may require additional modifications to accommodate the dual power source system.
###Challenges of Diesel Hybrids
1. **Emission Control**
– One of the main challenges of developing diesel hybrids is addressing the emission control standards. While diesel engines are known for their fuel efficiency and torque, they struggle with NOx and particulate emissions, which are harder to mitigate in a hybrid setup.
– Implementing advanced emission control systems in diesel hybrids can significantly increase production costs and complexity, making it less viable from a manufacturing and consumer standpoint.
2. **Efficiency and Power Output**
– Despite the potential for high efficiency and power output in diesel engines, the integration of hybrid technology can lead to diminishing returns. The additional weight and complexity of hybrid components may offset the inherent advantages of diesel engines, making them less attractive in a hybrid configuration.
– Gas engines, on the other hand, offer a better balance of efficiency and power delivery, making them a more practical choice for hybrid applications.
###Potential Applications
While modern passenger cars may not feature diesel hybrids, there are potential applications where diesel hybrid technology could be beneficial:
1. **Commercial Vehicles**
– Commercial trucks, buses, and fleet vehicles could benefit from the fuel efficiency and torque of diesel engines in a hybrid setup. The larger scale and operational demands of these vehicles make diesel hybrids a more viable option for achieving significant fuel savings and emissions reduction.
– With advancements in emission control technology and hybrid integration, diesel hybrid commercial vehicles could play a crucial role in sustainable transportation solutions.
2. **Off-Road and Heavy-Duty Equipment**
– Off-road vehicles, construction equipment, and agricultural machinery could leverage the power and reliability of diesel hybrids in challenging operating conditions.
– The combination of diesel efficiency and electric propulsion could enhance the performance and environmental impact of heavy-duty equipment, especially in sectors where emissions reduction and operational cost savings are paramount.
###Conclusion
In conclusion, while the concept of diesel hybrids holds merit in theory, the practical challenges and market dynamics have led to the predominance of gas engine pairing in modern hybrid and plug-in hybrid cars. Emission regulations, market demand, and technology compatibility play significant roles in shaping the direction of hybrid technology in the automotive industry.
While diesel hybrids may not be prevalent in passenger cars, their potential applications in commercial vehicles, off-road equipment, and heavy-duty machinery present promising opportunities for leveraging the benefits of diesel efficiency and electric propulsion. As technology continues to advance and emission control measures improve, the landscape of hybrid drivetrains may evolve, opening doors for innovative solutions in sustainable transportation.
In the meantime, the focus on refining gas engine hybrids and electrification efforts remains essential in driving the transition towards cleaner and more efficient mobility solutions.
In conclusion, the concept of diesel hybrids holds potential applications, but the practical challenges and market dynamics have led to gas engine pairing in modern hybrid and plug-in hybrid cars. Though diesel hybrids may not be prevalent in passenger cars, their potential applications in other vehicles present promising opportunities for leveraging the benefits of diesel efficiency and electric propulsion. And for more information on hybrid and electric cars, visit our website for the latest updates and insights on sustainable mobility solutions. #HybridTechnology #DieselHybrids #ElectricCars #GasEngineHybrids #SustainableMobility
There are diesel hybrid cars from Peugeot and Mercedes for example. In general diesel engines require more stuff for proper exhaust cleaning and so, comparing to a gas engine, making diesel engines more expensive and heavier.
And in general hybrids are not so green like you would maybe expect as the electrical range is pretty low (normally far less than 100km), no matter whether it has a diesel or gas engine.
For example the Mercedes E300 diesel hybrid has an electrical range of only 45km until you have to recharge the battery. After that you either need to recharge or you use the combustion engine.
there are multiple reasons for this.
first of all diesel engines have a very low RPM range to work with which is something you dont really want.
Beside this Diesel engines have major emissions problems that almost always require the engine and exhaust to be very hot in order for the emissions systems to work and even with that they still need Diesel emission fluid to meet their emissions.
You will also notice that the vast majority of **good** hybrids are not using turbo charged engines as the turbo lag is also something you want to avoid as well as the complexity and reliability problems of turbos which can be entirely avoided by not using them.
Overall the characteristics of a naturally aspirated engine combined with an electric motor are simply the best of both worlds as the electric motor makes up for the low torque and power of the combustion engine at low RPM while the combustion engine itself can output peak power at the upper end where smaller electric motors run out of steam.
And beside all this theres also the fact that diesel engines are more expensive so this would make hybrids even more expensive then they already are.
I’m sure it’s possible, but hybrids are specifically paired with a type of engine called an “Atkinson cycle” engine. These are highly efficient on their own – which is why they can achieve 35+ mpg on the highway with gas, when the electric motor is not in use – but have poor “low-end” acceleration. They can’t start from a standstill very well, and that’s when the electric motor takes over.
Gas engines are much simpler to build. Given that you want the gas engine in a hybrid to run as little as possible, the advantages in fuel consumption do not outweigh the added complexity.
Second reason: Diesel engines have good torque at low RPM. You don’t need that in a hybrid.
Third reason: those hybrids are designed as world cars. The US market hates diesel and thinks diesel is only for trucks – heavy trucks, not pickups which are so popular there.
Because in order to eliminate those particulate diesel emissions you need a lot of pretty expensive gear and a hybrid engine by its nature is also very expensive.
So most civilian consumers won’t be willing to buy what becomes a very expensive car for marginal savings in fuel economy between diesel and petrol.
The torque VS speed profiles of diesel, petrol and electric engines also show that diesel-electric hybrids are somewhat suboptimal.
Diesel engines excel at sustained medium speeds so work best on long distance endurance travel, while electric engines are best with low speeds and frequent accelerations/deceleration so inner city travel.
The two profiles conflict whereas petrol engines work best at high speeds like that on highways.
However diesel-electric engines do have a place in moving big and heavy things around like train locomotives, some tanks, ships and submarines all of which frequently use diesel-electric engines.
I work at a car company, and getting clean diesel emissions is complicated. Between the sensors, computers, def system, and heat management, small car diesel engines are significantly more complex than standard turbocharged gas engines, which are almost as efficient and way cheaper to make. Combine that with the battery and other electric systems, and a hybrid diesel would be a nightmare to engineer and manufacture.
Diesels have advantages for heavy duty trucks and towing, so we still make plenty of them, but there really isn’t a market for a more expensive hybrid that would likely also break down more often.
How much is additional weight of diesel engines an issue? No one has mentioned that yet, so I wonder…
A lot of comments here points to the emissions regulations rather than efficiency is on-point. Diesel engines have a lot worse cold-start emissions than a gasoline engine would. For a hybrid the engine is effectively cold-starting multiple times per drive, only getting up to operating temperature for the catalytic converter in extended operation..
Diesel-Electric locomotive is standard for almost a century, and it’s a proven technology when paired up. It’s just in an automotive use cycle, diesel engines just don’t operate well in the frequent on-off cycle.
When you are marketing EV, gasoline tailpipe emissions look clear. Diesel emissions can look sooty, not always but can. There is a huge branding disconnect there.
Might as well run a coal-fired boiler in there to charge the batteries… suddenly feel the ick factor there? That’s why it’s gasoline.
It might be interesting if they looked at making an alcohol fuel system. If you can’t find fuel stations then pop in the corner convenience store and get a couple bottles of vodka or a case of rubbing alcohol to get you home.
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It is a great design if you are trying to move millions of lbs of locomotive and train and other very heavy machinery. In a car application the increased cost and weight of a diesel powertrain doesn’t balance off the slight efficiency improvement in the combustion cycle.
It is only great if the driver is an engineer and understand the drawbacks and benefits of the Powertrain. Also you need a specific use cycle.
Let’s imagine I live 50 km from my work and my diesel-hybrid has an electric range of 45 km. This sucks and I will just torture the diesel engine unless I don’t use the battery and run it like a non hybrid diesel which means I get no hybrid benefit..
If my daily commute is well within range of the battery and I drive carefully so I don’t even start the diesel engine daily I have a great car that can also run long journeys on a weekend with its efficient diesel engine.
I have used a Merc E300de for a 30km commute and I drove it electric 90% of the time. When temperature dropped to -15C it usually started the diesel instant as I hit the start button because the car judged it better get it heated up, now the diesel engine wouldn’t really turn off again even if I had battery power available. But this was probably for the better on those really cold days. Drove the same car Stuttgart to Stockholm with 5.x L/100km don’t remember exactly but it was a good number considering its a large car we never stopped to charge it and we did 140-180 kph all the time in Germany 😄
But it’s really obvious in the Merc 300de anyway that once the engine starts it stays on for longer than in a gas hybrid. It is programmed to maintain engine temperature and also tries to predict the user so it avoids to many start/stops. But the car is fine to drove fully electric if destination is in range imo and the electric engine is strong enough to not test my patience anyway!
If your the kind of hybrid user that will do a kickdown on every major acceleration and start your engine 5 times in your daily commute the Mercedes diesel hybrid is not for you.
Look up Edison motors on YouTube. They are prototyping a diesel electric semi truck right now with plans on a pickup version.
As to your question: I believe most consumer hybrids use the “fuel” engine all the time with electric support. So the engine has to operate efficiently over a wide band which as stated in other parts of this post is less gooder with a diesel engine. I think if they went with full electric drive and a built on generator it would be considerably better. My 2 cents though.
Mercedes-Benz produce both gasoline and diesel versions of their current generation hybrids. The diesel hybrids are known for having a long highway cruising range, with the benefit of lower emissions in the city. The reason diesel hybrids are not more common is simply price – most people will opt for the cheaper gasoline version. In Germany people tend to opt for the diesel version only if they spend a lot of time on the highway and want to reduce refuelling stops.
Other manufacturers used to produce diesel hybrids up until a few years ago: Range Rover, Volvo, Peugeot. They were not very popular, so they were discontinued.
Diesel better than gas when on long time. Gasoline better when turning on and off a lot.
Consumer cars on and off a lot compared to trains or generators.
They do exist:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peugeot_508#508_RXH](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peugeot_508#508_RXH)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_E-Class_(W213)#Drivetrain_(2016%E2%80%932020)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_E-Class_(W213)#Drivetrain_(2016%E2%80%932020))
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_E-Class_(W214)#Plug-in_hybrids](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_E-Class_(W214)#Plug-in_hybrids)
Diesel engines take a very long time to warm up and aren’t very good for short trips where the engine runs intermittently like on a hybrid. Diesel engines are very efficient compared to gas engines, more energy is converted to move the car instead of wasted as heat. Anyone who drives a diesel knows how long it takes to warm one up in the winter and how rough, even modern ones run when it’s frigid outside. Diesel fuel is more viscous than gas making it harder to atomize when it’s cold causing it to burn poorly. This causes unburnt soot to build up inside the engine causing piston rings to stick and not seal properly as well as build up of carbon [deposits inside the intake manifold](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CIn94uecRQ).
Politics 💯. US politicians have made it very difficult for Auto makers to use diesel engines in passenger vehicles.
I think you’re thinking more like a Diesel Electric generator situation, rather than a hybrid or plugin hybrid like we’re using in the automotive industry. Hybrid cars are using the full drive-train from a normal ICE car, so they come with all the complexity and weight that a normal car has, then they add the battery and electrical sub system of a typical EV, on either the hub(s), or within the drive train somewhere, to add the ability to cover the gaps in a hybrid engine’s power cycle.
Depending on their type, they may be able to act as plugin-hybrid (full electric, just with added weight), or only able to charge through use of the engine (fairly inefficient), and regenerative braking (good alternative to brake disc usage).
I think what you’re thinking of is more like the diesel electric train locomotives, which are very popular. This would be because they don’t need as much added complexity that you have with a car, so the added weight of a smaller diesel engine (in say a railbus size train), isn’t as much of a problem, not to mention that rails are a lot less impacted by weight.
most of the negitives on desiel in this post are so silly, they act like there are not SMALL cars all over the world with tiny ass deisels getting amazing mpg numbers. Ohh they got to warm up, ohh they are larger and heavier, they are more complicated. like some many excuses and zero good reasons listed.
a mini one diesel has a rated mpg of like 80 by it self. add a hybrid drive train and it will likely break 100, and diesels are great on the highway and at constant load where electric does not help as much.
To op. there has to be a reason, I assume its corporate greed in some fashion ( as well as the standard of making most cars only have 300 miles range give or take). but maybe someone will actully give a REAL good reason aside from all these joke excuses.
Aside from what everyone else mentioned, Economics matter.
Diesels are already more expensive to produce than a similar displacement gasoline engine. When manufacturers come up with a new car or platform, they have a price point in mind and try to design the bill of materials to maximize profit within that price point.
If they decide to use an engine that drives up the cost they either have to price the vehicle higher, reduce the margin, or decrease the BOM cost elsewhere. None of those are preferable and some might not be possible.
The other consideration is that diesel is more expensive than gasoline. The efficiency gains of diesel over an Atkinson cycle gas engine don’t really make up for the increased cost of the fuel.
There were: https://www.carwow.co.uk/hybrid-cars/diesel#gref
But GM then VW kind of ruined diesel’s reputation for a while.
a lot of the most fuel efficient diesel engines are banned for emissions reasons in the USA. There were some super efficient diesel engines that were released by VW in 1996 that are still around if you know where to look, but they’re highly sought after.
There’s a few companies that buy them and then refurbish them to make them drive-able again. The 1996 Passat TDI got 37mpg/45mpg highway. I believe it can be made even more efficient. After that I believe they became less fuel efficient and then I believe the TDI was taken out of the American market for a few years until VW could design a newer less-efficient (but cleaner burning) TDI engine for the American market. Do your own research though, this is just stuff I was told by some guy who loved 1996 TDI Passats. From my layman’s understanding, what is happening is the newer engines are required to “reburn” their fuel so that it burns-off more harmful chemicals it misses in the first go-around and that creates inefficiency, but a cleaner burn for the environment. Or the concept is flawed and it doesn’t do shit. I dunno, I’m not a mechanic or engineer an my knowledge of the fuel process is limited.
There are hybrid diesel cars too, and even hybrid LPG. I guess it depends on if cars of that sort are even popular in that area, if there’s infrastructure (gas stations), local taxes, discounts etc.
Diesels are still pretty popular in Europe, but only among certain audiences.
Another thing is that Diesels can be more expensive both to buy and to maintain. Combine that with extra costs and complexity associated with the hybrid drivetrain, and it’s probably not really worth it. I enjoyed my diesel cars but if I’d want a hybrid, I’d surely go with gas. The savings with a hybrid are already enough that diesel doesn’t make much difference, I think
An interesting side fact: one of the first uses of diesel engines was kind of a hybrid engine. At first it was hard to adjust power on diesel engines but easy with electric motors. So German engineers strapped a diesel engine to a generator strapped to an electric motor to propel a ship.
I’m a fan of the diesel-electric plug-in hybrid. If the battery pack can do 50 miles, then I wouldn’t even need the engine to come on for 90% of my driving.
Hybrids get a fuel economy rating, but its from the EPA driving loop, which is NOT what I drive. Therefore, my 50-MPG hybrid actually gets about 300 miles per gallon, since the engine rarely comes on.
This means that bio-diesel is a viable option, and that’s why I prefer a diesel for the hybrid than a gasoline engine.
Why do hybrids in the USA use a small gasoline engine? Its cheaper to make and sell. Companies are finicky about their profits, and buyers are finicky about their prices when they buy.
Hybrid passenger cars use the gas powerplant to generate power to the drive train and the electric portion just supplements this power. This allows the battery bank and electric motors to be relatively small and inexpensive, comparable to a standard ICE but with much better fuel economy.
Diesel electric is much more efficient, but functions in a completely different way. All the efficiencies of a diesel engines are within a narrow optimal RPM and temperature so the motor only runs as a generator to charge large battery banks which drive powerful motors. It’s basically an off-grid fully electric vehicle with a diesel generator onboard. This increases the weight and cost, so it isn’t viable in small commuter cars that are going short distances over short durations.
For use cases where you need extreme range or extreme hauling capacity like trains, submarines, and long haul trucking (lookup Edison Motors) a diesel electric is by far the best option. But commuters just have different driving habits and needs that are better suited by a small gas engine supplemented by a small electric motor.